並前往https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/%E8%AE%80%E9%A5%97%E6%99%82%E5%85%89-ep33-%E9%96%B1%E8%AE%80%E5%9C%A8%E9%9B%B2%E7%AB%AF-%E9%95%B7%E6%A6%AE%E6%A9%9F%E4%B8%8A%E6%9B%B8%E5%A0%B1%E7%84%A1%E7%B4%99%E5%8C%96/id1555683396?i=1000555334282