並前往https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/ep-59-%E9%95%B7%E6%A6%AE%E8%88%AA%E7%A9%BA%E8%B7%AF%E8%B7%91%E7%A4%BE%E6%98%AF%E4%BB%80%E9%BA%BC%E6%A8%A3%E7%9A%84%E7%A5%9E%E7%A5%95%E7%B5%84%E7%B9%94/id1571882607?i=1000565310687