並前往https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/ep29-%E9%A9%9A%E5%A5%87%E5%9B%9B%E9%A3%9B%E4%BA%BA-%E6%88%90%E7%82%BA%E7%A9%BA%E6%9C%8D%E5%93%A1%E7%9A%84%E8%80%83%E9%A9%97/id1522138522?i=1000506073161