並前往https://www.audacy.com/podcast/%E5%8F%B0%E7%81%A3%E9%87%91%E4%BB%94%E6%97%A5%E5%B0%B1%E8%8A%B1%E8%8A%B1%E7%9A%84-%E5%8F%B0%E8%8A%B1-dd124/episodes/%E5%8F%B0%E8%8A%B1ep85%E4%BD%A0%E6%9C%89%E6%B2%92%E6%9C%89%E8%B2%B7%E9%81%8E%E5%A3%AB%E6%9E%97%E5%A4%9C%E5%B8%82%E7%9A%84%E6%B0%B4%E6%9E%9C%E6%9C%89%E6%B2%92%E6%9C%89%E7%9C%8B%E9%81%8E%E9%97%9C%E9%8D%B5%E6%99%82%E5%88%BB-5925d