並前往https://www.listennotes.com/podcasts/%E5%8F%B0%E7%81%A3%E9%87%91%E4%BB%94%E6%97%A5%E5%B0%B1%E8%8A%B1%E8%8A%B1%E7%9A%84-%E5%8F%B0%E8%8A%B1/%E5%8F%B0%E8%8A%B1ep47-eXgParHFqiL/